Expo fleet/fleets

[Maximus Plasma]

Well not really where else to place this thread. So i put it here.
Scott is worried about the impact of the Exploratory fleet or fleets.
I am not sure as to how George intends to have them played.
I think if there are 2 fleets one Romulan the other a race to be determined yet. Then it would be fine to place one on each side.
However, as they are separate races. I do not think they should be under the chain of command, Of the side they end up on.
Rather think of them as allies. Each with a separate identity. And most probably, a separate mission from their home races to accomplish. While aiding their side.
If however there is only one Expo fleet. It would have to have a mission that would affect both sides equally.

[Evil Spock]

I have talked about it with George and he is aware of my concerns. We will see what he does.

Also you call them Exploratory, they were suggested to be Expiditionary. Another words say Gorn ships go into Fed space to assist in Fed operations. They aren't just free roaming around in fed space doing whatever they wish, they are under fed command.

This was supposed to be a teams game, not a teams game for most and a free for all for a select few.

The introduction of Expeditionary fleets was so that there could be some interesting battles and not every battle would be Mirak vs Lyran. At least in my opinion these other races ships should not change the game in any way, just that they add some varient in the battles.

When you open this up to different victory conditions, not being on a team, etc. I worry your needlessly jepordizing what we all hope is an even start for both teams,...

What would we gain from that ?

As I said George is aware of it and other players have contacted him about running Fed Exp fleets. I am sure the results and answers to his plans may well be secret.

[Head Fur Shalafi]

My thoughts
they would need to be aligned to one team... maybe not under direct command (ie race leaders could give them orders but it would be up to the exp commander to follow them) but they need to be aligned to a specific side.

[Maximus Plasma]

Exploratory , expedionary. You say poootao i sat potaaato, you say tomatooooo i say tomahhhto ,
What i was refering to is pretty much what Walter says.
they would be on a team but they would also have a seperate misson.

[Evil Spock]

There is a ? that I touched on earlier,..

The RL's are large and in charge,.. but to what degree. It has been stated that they are not going to be order players into exact hexses or other detailed stuff. In my opinion, they are there to guide a team of players. No one wants to just be doing what someone else says hex by hex. Sure coordintated attacks are important and other stuff and that will be key for the RL's to pull off. That may well invovle on occasion carefull orchestration of fleet movements.

From what I am hearing of the Expeditionary Fleets, the seperate mission worries me. So if they have a different goal then they cannot be counted on. That is ok as long as it is balanced, and each side has that problem with the same amount of fleets with that handicap.

Again, just my opinion Barry, but your ostricizing the E.F's from real game play. If they had different goals and VC's,... as a RL I would avoid using them in mission critical events. You could well place them in "safe" defensive positions as a result of what your requesting.

I feel they should be part of the team in all ways, the desire for an oddball VC,... ? Why? How does that benifit the game or 90% of the players?

Explain your reasons for thinking that is a good addition to a teams game, I know you have it in mind. I just do not know what it is. You have pretty good ideals in general and I also see you and Dfly as our next upcoming Ref's soon. So huck the ideal out there in full, without giving away too much.

My personal ideal for the EF's would have been to set one player up on each side as a traitor. The EF's are actually on the other team, than they are officially assigned. No one has ever mentioned this, nor have I heard anything to this ideal. It is just an example of why maybe different VC's could be good.

IF = absolutely evenly applied to both sides.

I already am worried about EF's and in particular if they are anywhere within sensor range of my fleets

[DeathFrog]

Scott, how they would be used is up to George. Reguardless of how we would use them, George still gets the final say. I myself would rather not see any E.F. at all. I would rather see within each side's shiplist a select few ships from other races that cannot be replaced once destroyed. These ships would be deployed as all other regular ships.
That being said, I will not try to change George's opinion of how he wishes to use them within his campaign if I can help it. If I like the way they were used, I would tell him, and others, after. If I dislike the way they were used I would also tell George and others, after.

Call it my experience from other campaign systems showing through.

[Maximus Plasma]

Scott i used the phrase. A separate mission.
Not victory condition. They would be part of whatever team. But in addition to aiding them.
They would, or could, have a separate mission to accomplish. Think of that as um mm oh extra credits. Like bonus points. The separation of command is just a reflection of having different races working together. Any EF commander would need to work with the Team Leader toward the ultimate VC for their team.
But even as stated earlier each player will will have some leeway in their orders.
Is it too much to to ask for that same policy when it comes to an EF fleet?

[Evil Spock]

Sure,...

Dfly, we have these talks to help George in making his final call, not to change his mind or the campaign. These open discussions are what help him in deciding what problems may arise. And yes as we have all said dozens of times the final call is his.

[Evil Spock]

How about them Pats and Soxs,... Must be something in the New England water,..

[Maximus Plasma]

Hey D, I completely agree with it being Georges call as to the make up and integration of EF into the campaign.
Whatever he envisions i will do my best to make work!
This his baby, and i was, just as Scott pointed out. Offering some input to the possibilities for EF's. that i have thought of.
In the end however the Descion is Georges. I trust his choices.
Oh and George when you read this. i would like to express my condolances for the season the "ST Louis Rams have had so far" sorry had to put a little non campaign ribbing in there.

[Evil Spock]

I think all input is good for a Ref,.. There is so much to do as a Ref that it is often easy to overlook little details. When groups of other players hash out the possible problems of something new, it frees up the ref to focus on other stuff.

Barry I hope those Romulan E.F.'s don't end up on the Mirak side, those ESG's would suck.

Good luck in the upcoming game wherever we land!

PS Suzanne just saw your Picts Dfly and laughed her ass off.

[Maximus Plasma]

Well in the SFB universe the Romulans would have been on the Lyran side along with the Klingons. VS the Fed, Hyrdan, Mirzak, Gorn,
Of course the ESG is a bummer for Romulans as it negates the cloak.
It may just end up being decided by which Leader picks me! ;D
But omly "Oh-b George Know-be" knows for sure!

[Maximus Plasma]

Steroids maybe?

[DeathFrog]

"As-Steroids" is what you get when you sit on a pile of space rocks.

[Lord Hellus, Council Chairman]

I believe the "expedionary" forces will be "given" to the RLs to aid and avenge slights shown them. Romulan on one side, Gorn on the other. I think Barry wants to run one....maybe the Rams