Commander Malex
Backyard Yowler
SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND! "Kat-Of-Endless-Droning"
Posts: 881
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Post by Commander Malex on Feb 14, 2008 11:23:48 GMT -5
GentleKats (and other non-felinoid races),In mulling over the Peace Accord Dreadnought Fleet Battle and its outcome I have this still nagging itch which needs scratching. No, I don't have fleas and jokes aside...somethings bothering me. One of the scheduled pilots for the Lyran side (Hema I believe) didn't show up and we sat waiting for three-quarters of an hour waiting for him. Then a decision was made between the two fleet leaders and the ref to have the ref fly for the short-pawed Lyran side. Now you might think (if you know me) that I might object to the ref flying as he is a freaking devious and deadly pilot, waaay outta my league. But, NO, I don't object to that, there are many excellent pilots out there who equally could have done the same. What has bothered me is that over the past three campaigns, I have seen many a established player argue that "such and such is against the rules" or "that these are the rules and we should follow them as closely as possible to maintain the integrity of the game". So, I reread the rules and lo and behold, thats why I'm bothered. I quote: "If both a regular player is missing and the substitute fails to show up, the battle is done with A.I. for the smallest ship in the fleet. There is a 20 minute window to get either to show up. Game proceeds after that."Kats, Me thinkest we shouldn't do that again. The AI was the way to go it seems
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Feb 14, 2008 12:19:31 GMT -5
That's why I asked to make sure it was cleared with both sides Especially the Mirak at least 5 times.
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Post by Fleet Commander Newterd on Feb 14, 2008 13:22:47 GMT -5
Yes the rules are to be strictly enforced when you agree with them. They are to be bent when you disagree LOL LOL LOL Seriously, no battle has started on time. The rule is in place and a Fleet Commander could call for it to be enforced if he chooses. So far no one has done that as we play to have fun battles, and fighting AI and winning, is not as fun as fighting humans even if you lose. If you want to fight AI and win, just fire up OP and play solo So Yes the Mirak choose to not enforce that rule and offered to the lyran another option. Seems pretty fair to me, the only rules problem is if we make it a problem.
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Post by 6 of 9 on Feb 14, 2008 14:56:40 GMT -5
I had substitute players that night to fly instead of Hemah, I remember Vanguard and Hohhoch were present and at least one of them was a substitute, when Shalafi presented me with the option of him flying instead of Hemah I asked my team if they were OK with it, and they didn't mind. I took into consideration that Reffin' is thankless and boring job with little or no reward, so when Scott proposed that Shalafi flies as sub, we let him have fun a bit
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Feb 14, 2008 17:28:48 GMT -5
I had brought it up to you after it was brought up to me by the Mirak players...
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Post by Fleet Commander Newterd on Feb 14, 2008 19:07:20 GMT -5
Warchild was fleet commander and had overall say, but he pretty much agreed with the entire team.
I think mostly after sitting there for 50 minutes I was sooo beaten down bored,.. I would have flown against anyone to do the dam.n battle. I had been there early like a good dubie, so I sat there for well over an hour!
Maybe for the sake of all players the 20 minute rule aught to be enforced ??
Still it is up to the commanders of the fleets to make those calls. They are tough to do, you seem like a hard a.ss if you do. From a players point of view though sitting there for 50+ minutes waiting sucked, especially when the guy we are waiting for is playing another game of SFC.
Good to all converse about it though folks.
Warning: if my team flys when I am Fleet Commander, we launch the game at 20 minutes, have your backups there, as many as you wish, but we launch on the mark!
Sincerely, Hard Ass Newterd
PS I support the ref flying others should offer it too. Especially when down points it seems It is a nice way to say thank you to Shalafi who does alot so we can have fun.
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Post by Count Blademaster on Feb 14, 2008 21:33:59 GMT -5
Scott: +1
I completely agree rules are there in case there's some disagreement between the teams, which is not the case.
Nevertheless, I suspect Dfly might have something to say about this....
Not that it matters, as fleet commanders have the final say in these matters.
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Commander Malex
Backyard Yowler
SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND! "Kat-Of-Endless-Droning"
Posts: 881
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Post by Commander Malex on Feb 17, 2008 0:21:40 GMT -5
LOL ;D I knew you all would feel that way, I agree. But Devils Advocate, I've been told to RTFM a few times so wanted to check you all, I never had a real prob with it, just wondered if anyone else did.
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Post by DeathFrog on Feb 18, 2008 19:57:34 GMT -5
Scott: +1 I completely agree rules are there in case there's some disagreement between the teams, which is not the case. Nevertheless, I suspect Dfly might have something to say about this.... Not that it matters, as fleet commanders have the final say in these matters. Thanks for letting me know that I dont matter. I do in fact have problems with what went down, but since I was not there, there appears to be NO POINT in my perspective. However, I shall state that RULES were put in place BECAUSE things may not happen when they should. the fact that Shalafi flew did not bother me, but the fact that he flew, WHEN there were Lyran pilots available REALLY DOES bother me. THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN MY VIEW. Again, it was the call of the commander at THAT TIME, not mine. Might be more to follow, much more reading to do.
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Post by Count Blademaster on Feb 19, 2008 2:25:23 GMT -5
Scott: +1 I completely agree rules are there in case there's some disagreement between the teams, which is not the case. Nevertheless, I suspect Dfly might have something to say about this.... Not that it matters, as fleet commanders have the final say in these matters. Thanks for letting me know that I dont matter. I do in fact have problems with what went down, but since I was not there, there appears to be NO POINT in my perspective. However, I shall state that RULES were put in place BECAUSE things may not happen when they should. the fact that Shalafi flew did not bother me, but the fact that he flew, WHEN there were Lyran pilots available REALLY DOES bother me. THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN MY VIEW. Again, it was the call of the commander at THAT TIME, not mine. Might be more to follow, much more reading to do. You know that was not what I meant. I meant exactly what you said, that "Again, it was the call of the commander at THAT TIME, not mine." and that there were people with authority (i.e.: both fleet commanders and the ref) who agreed to bend the rules. Of course you have the right to voice your opinion, and I never intended on suggesting otherwise. My point was more on the line of "I don't think much can be done after the guys in charge of that battle made that decision." In fact when I suggested that you might have something to say about it, I was thinking of the fact that some Lyran player (don't remember who) who was in TS at the time of the battle, but uninterested in participating (playing something else), was replaced by a highly skilled player. I did not say so because it's not my place to criticize nor reprimend other Fleet Admirals for the decision, that is YOUR prerogative.
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Post by DeathFrog on Feb 19, 2008 8:32:34 GMT -5
I am sorry Blade. I did not mean my post to sound against you. I should have put a smiley after that first statement of mine. I am fighting a cold, have been for a while, and spend 2 full days of travel to get back, making me tired.
I apologize to you for that.
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Post by Count Blademaster on Feb 19, 2008 12:21:47 GMT -5
No problem man I hope you get better soon. There's much Lyran ass-kicking to do
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Commander Malex
Backyard Yowler
SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND! "Kat-Of-Endless-Droning"
Posts: 881
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Post by Commander Malex on Feb 20, 2008 15:42:48 GMT -5
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Post by DeathFrog on Feb 20, 2008 19:10:25 GMT -5
I have a new rules problem i would like to bring up. The AI flying for the missing pilot. Many believe this means, in a 3v3 persay, have the team with 2 pilots each only get one, and place the last ship fully under control of the AI. Others believe that the AI means you get to have your 2 wings fly 3 ships between them. This has been in contention once to my knowledge, and, against what I thought should happen, an AI flew the 3rd ship. THis issue should be clarified before it happens again. I am not asking for any rules changes, just asking what is the actual interpretation(by the REF I guess). Whatever the interpretation, the rule should be ammended to clarify only which way it is intended.
This is my opinion only. Others may or may not be already asking such things.
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Post by Evil Spock on Feb 20, 2008 20:13:10 GMT -5
Of course the Ref is the final call.
I would like to say the precident in the past has been the AI ship flys "in your squadron" following with the fleet orders or other single/human run ship/s.
The ideal has been to minimize the adverse effect AI has in the battle. If you force your AI ally to be a complete seperate "player" under AI, the fleet loses all coordination and it is frankly ridiculous. Your loan/seperate AI ship will charge the enemy regaurdless of what your other ship/s do. You cannot maintain any fleet coordination at all.
It maximises the worst aspect of why we are trying to avoid AI.
The one thing that bugs me is that most average players cannot effectively run a fleet. If there are AI battles then the experienced players like Dfly will kick ass cause he can run all three at once moving back and forth!!!! Poor me or Todd are screwed.
Then again avoid this by having your wings show up,..
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