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Post by Da Brain on May 2, 2007 20:40:54 GMT -5
It will be up to you ref's I will refrain from overly stating my case as I have been known to do in the past,.. bad Scott!
Various views are out there for you to evaluate and decide if a rule should be changed. Above all keep it simple cause it can quickly become a can of exploitable rules.
Takeo,.. no I agree with you, the folks who can choose better ships deserve better ships, they have paid their dues and time in the game. I and all players know that, just accumulated damage and the requirement to go home to fix it is one piece of helping out the disadvantaged. That is all, without it,.. well you know.
Good luck Ref's as always it is a tough call to decide rules, nothing I liked having to do. I am glad now that I can just say my logic/case and then leave it in your hands.
I am also very excited to run in a game, thanks to both of you Shalafi and George for your efforts !!!!!!
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Post by Lord Hellus, Council Chairman on May 2, 2007 22:08:20 GMT -5
I look forward to your running
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on May 2, 2007 22:45:40 GMT -5
he he... and we'll think about not "fixing" all your random rolls oh cheesy one
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Post by DemonFROG ISC Pacifism on May 3, 2007 9:23:09 GMT -5
Just a suggestion here.
If so, I would recommend maybe planets that have been taken but do not yet have a base could repair up to say 25 damage, but cost to repair would be double. Example: My 3 CL ships return to a planet I control. 2 of my ships have damage, ship A at 48% damage and ship B at 14 % damage. For this example, consider all 3 ships cost exactly 100. I could repair ship A by 25%, therefore going from 48% to 73%, at a cost of 50 EP. No way near as efficient as a base and at considerable costs, but at least it wont have to return all the way home for repairs. The other suggestion would be, to the player in question: Why did you not just build a base at that new planet? Of course then he would need another 3 ships in that area to defend it and maybe he does not have that available to him.
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Post by Da Brain on May 3, 2007 9:54:41 GMT -5
Well just my thoughts,.. that means as soon as you capture someones planet you can then repair at. Ugh
This conversation started due to the excessive ability of ships to repair and not really be effected by the damage from prior battles. This has been seen in the shadow battles.
As a result a conversation was started to attempt to make damage more permanent and effective.
What is occuring is that rather than making that damage effective, folks are suggesting ways to make it even less effective. Suggesting that open space repairs be possible and now repair at planets.
I worry that we are moving in the opposite direction of what we started out to do.
Your going to run into rules issues like if a ship at a planet is under repair, can it fight. If so folks may end up repairing at a planet with a base and use the planet not the base so it can fight. Many unforseen things can occur.
What started off as a simple suggestion of:
"Ships cannot use any repair in future battles if they have more than 10% damage" (One sentence real simple, easy to use and bomb proof)
is now having the potential of a rewrite of the entire nature of repair. I feel current repair rules work and are fair, the issue that is not working is damage healing up right before battle, that should be the focus.
This is just my humble opinion.
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Post by DemonFROG ISC Pacifism on May 3, 2007 10:17:36 GMT -5
I agree with the Headcheese on this idea being expanded perhaps a little to far. I only suggested the planet repair system so others can think about it as well. If it were to be used, I would say the ship under repair could not be used as it would be on the planet surface or some such, and if the attackers won and occupied, they would capture that ship(ehehehe).
I totally agree on : "Ships cannot use any repair in future battles if they have more than 10% damage" as a new rule addition, should the new refs decide on it.
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on May 3, 2007 12:08:32 GMT -5
believe me it's under review... I'm not expecting any drastic changes though.
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Post by Lord Hellus, Council Chairman on May 3, 2007 17:35:33 GMT -5
The "planetary" repair would be the same as the planet can produce. i.e. a planet can repair 10 points...not much. A capital would repair 25.. useful if you were already repairing at your base. I would also say that ships at planetary repair could fight but repairs aren't completed until the end of impulse three. I do like the no repair during battle though
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Post by jhonsheridan on May 3, 2007 21:51:46 GMT -5
Guess no one likes my repair ship ideas huh!? they still have the limits of placed upon them by the refs, But a bit more flexible . tactics wise.
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Post by Lord Hellus, Council Chairman on May 3, 2007 22:01:07 GMT -5
If you want to expend some of your points on FRDs go ahead. Maybe your strategem will work. Most however will take fighting ships
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Post by G'Kenga -Narn High Councillor on May 4, 2007 14:11:12 GMT -5
I think I like it. I'm not running a nation in the upcoming, so perhaps my opinion shouldn't carry as much weight.
Planet-based repair sounds like a good addition to me. I think the issue of using a captured planet right away is easily worked around. You must plot the repair, and you must use the EP from that planet. Thus, you can't repair at it until the turn after you've occupied it, and the repair isn't complete until imp3 ends.
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Post by Lord Hellus, Council Chairman on May 4, 2007 21:16:03 GMT -5
The planetary repair and the repair before battle both work. Shalafi and I think a couple of repair during combat won't change too much. we think a limit of 2 for FF's, 3 for CL's, 4 for CA's, and 5 for DN's would work. Bandage repairs for ships over 10% damage. A ship under 10% if given 15 repair would have 15 repair.Correct shalafi ?
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on May 4, 2007 21:35:26 GMT -5
umm.. kinda... more like it's a set no matter what the starting damage... 0 or 99%
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Post by Lord Hellus, Council Chairman on May 4, 2007 21:46:38 GMT -5
So says my spectral sidekick. Now let the fright begin!!
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Post by Da Brain on May 5, 2007 7:51:54 GMT -5
Crasy in my opinion but I will go with it.
15 repair is more than the shadows have now and is the problem that a ship with 30% can become 100% strength by running for the first 5 minutes of battle, so damage has no real effect in the game but to strip repair boxes before battle. Fighting a 30% health ship (near dead) and then suddenly having it be at 100% is ridiculous, as we are all seeing in this B5 game. Is anyone else not seeing this issue ??
When a ship has 10% or less damage that is usually one or two systems at most damaged, so why bother limiting it to 2 or 3, etc.,.... it is no change ?
So damage still has no effect, furthermore the damage effects are made less serious under your proposal due to allowing repair basically everywhere on the map.
I will go with your call but I think it is worse than not having tampered with the repair rules at all. What the heck are you two thinking ?
In my opinion rather than fix the issue your making it worse. Also your going against a 5 to 1 vote of what other players feel is a good ideal. That should give you some pause to think at least, why do you wish to allow repair all over the map, your assisting the winner of battles. Why because the losser has no ships left, all your doing is making the winner of combat (the guy with damage), more strong, that keeps him winning.
This reminds me of Bush's economics, the rich get richer.
Once again I will go along with it and have registered my protest.
I find it almost comical that I proposed changes to repair because of all of us seeing the problem of shadows (or anyone) fully repairing up before combat. In suggesting changes the changes you two are now wishing for push us into the opposite direction of what Dfly, Ken and myself were attempting to address. I absolutely cannot fathom your logic, maybe I am misunderstanding it all ?
No offense meant folks, I am just really surprised is all.
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