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Battle
Jun 30, 2007 15:32:45 GMT -5
Post by Lord Hellus, Council Chairman on Jun 30, 2007 15:32:45 GMT -5
Looks like a battle between Ambroitz and Lord Todd I see a Dn and 2 CA's on Todd's side (and a BATS) A CA and 2 FF's on the Uruguayan side Correct? Haven't heard if it's open yet
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Battle
Jun 30, 2007 21:47:41 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jun 30, 2007 21:47:41 GMT -5
Just a guess not likely to be open.
I do find that as a shame in our games. If players are not matched skill level wise, pretty much you can guess it will be closed, I would do that and plan to if I can say fight Roman. It is normal but yet I dislike it.
Open games came about in the rules as long ago our player pool picked up speed. Battles used to be "always closed". As we moved to more players we created this option to allow for our funnest battles but did not want to force them open as that at the time had unknown consequences to our games. It has been tested now for ages and those old rules just stick around unchanged.
With the size of our current player pool it is time to possibly reconsider this rule. Gulp !
We play these games for the fun battles,... winning or lossing "aught" to be secondary. The funnest battles are when we all gather for an evening of battle. The comradarie, jibbing, and communal effort to pull off a fun game is really why we play
What would the ramifications be for our games if all battles were open ? Especially in a upcoming Team Campaign, this topic needs to at least be broached ,...
It is possible that we could set up a rotating team roster in which all players in the team could participate in battles. Once you played one, the race leader moves your name to the bottom of the list and others get the option to play. If a person one the list top cannot make a battle the next guy down in line gets the option. The missing player stays on the list top until he can eventually play.
The person who owns the fleet in combat always flys with that fleet if it is in battle. This rooster is for his wings.
Lastly it takes away the edge of the players skill difference. If in team campaign or ANY campaign our best meets our worst player,.. well it is not pretty. This opening of all battles levels the player skill differences in the games. It has an evening effect, which can help with our setting of nation BPV's at such different level at game start.
Um lastly I think this ideal is just plain FUN ! Fleet action and the confussion of it, to me, is the best part of this game.
Think about it is all.
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Battle
Jul 2, 2007 16:57:08 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 2, 2007 16:57:08 GMT -5
I guess this ideal, with its lack of response is not a good one ?
Thats ok our games work the way they are.
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Battle
Jul 2, 2007 17:58:11 GMT -5
Post by Maximus Plasma on Jul 2, 2007 17:58:11 GMT -5
Open battles do add alot of fun to our games. I however need as much practice as i can get. Hence i am trying to keep the battles i fly closed. When we play the next campaign. If it is a 2 team setup. Then i think we will see alot of open battles. As i am sure whoever ends up as my commander and chief. Will want someone who can fly at least halfa.s.s.e.d as my wing!
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 11:07:25 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 3, 2007 11:07:25 GMT -5
Yes but it is up to your opponent to (not your commander) and unless forced most players who have a skill edge will not open up a game if fighting someone of lower skill. I would not. You can say that maybe next campaign there will be more open battles. I would argue it will stay the same as it is now. Most folks, if fighting someone they precieve as lesser skilled will block the open battle ideal.
Which like I say I would also do, it is understandable by the way the rules are set up that way,.. but I also feel it is the wrong direction for our crew.
We have a plethora of players all who want to be part of battles and be part of the fun. I see no logical reason to have closed battles except to allow an ace pilot/player to kick butt on a novice/poor flyer.
Is that really what we are seeking by this rule ?
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 12:49:41 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 3, 2007 12:49:41 GMT -5
It all comes down to:
Do we play for wins,... or the gathering of the crew for fun battles. That is what this question hinges on.
For many it is the win, for others it is the fun of the fight. What are your thoughts ?
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 14:13:39 GMT -5
Post by ISN War Reporter (Embedded) on Jul 3, 2007 14:13:39 GMT -5
I'm for open battles ONLY when the players agree to do that.
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 14:15:45 GMT -5
Post by Da Brain on Jul 3, 2007 14:15:45 GMT -5
That is cool could explain why your logic to that ? In this upcoming game all players for a roster are on the same team. It is not like your recruiting the enemy.
Elaborate on your answer if you could ?
What drives you and apparently others to want to that ?
PS thanks for your input Roman
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 14:36:12 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 3, 2007 14:36:12 GMT -5
Just want to bump this back up there after being buried.
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 15:59:38 GMT -5
Post by Satai Vadenn ra Sinoval on Jul 3, 2007 15:59:38 GMT -5
Iwill open this battle if Blade wants to. As the point underdog, he would pick first and I'm sure he'ld pick D'Fly (I would). But I'm willing to take a chance.
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Battle
Jul 3, 2007 17:11:44 GMT -5
Post by DeathFrog on Jul 3, 2007 17:11:44 GMT -5
Questions then. Things that hopefully make you go, hmm! 1-(just using these statements to show a patern or point, nothing more) Statement #1 "We have a plethora of players all who want to be part of battles and be part of the fun. I see no logical reason to have closed battles except to allow an ace pilot/player to kick butt on a novice/poor flyer"., followed by statement #2 "I would do that and plan to if I can say fight Roman". This whole Idea is unfortunate but remember, the experienced guys start with much smaller fleets. If it is opened, and I fly vs Roman, and he has Vanguard and Maverik as wings, in bigger ships than mine, what do you think the results would be even if I had Warp and Blade? LOOKS like my ships will die. What if when it is between 2 people of much varying skill level, the top dog can only take better pilots and the inexperienced only gets inexperienced, would that help? Aparently not, yet if it is opened, the experienced guy gets creamed. Where do you balance this? 2- As it stands, opened battles will be looking for the top aces anyway. Say I have an open battle vs Alex. I would most likely get to choose first due to smaller ships or fleet, and sorry to say but my choice would not be Roman. Neither would Alex's choice. SO HOW does that get the inexperienced guys to fly in battles? Even open battles dont get the less skilled pilots to fly. HEck, I opened all my encounters to date and only 1 inexperienced pilot even managed to show up for it on time. He GOT to fly ;D. IF you dont show up, you CANNOT fly, plain and simple. Barry showed up last night, but too late. The battle last night I had 4 people say they will be there in the forums yet none of those 4 were there when we started, and we even started 10 mins late. STEP 1. You want to fly, show up. STEP 2. You want experience, attack thy neighbour, or even his neighbour. STEP 3. You want experience, stop running from encounters. 19 encounters for turn 4, but only 2 were flown.(stats may be different but this is what I was told).
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Battle
Jul 4, 2007 5:56:34 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 4, 2007 5:56:34 GMT -5
Answer for #1 :
No you misunderstand Dfly. I am talking about a rule change for the next Teams campaign not this one (depending on how it pans out maybe other games too). Your very correct that this game has built in shifts to account for single player in start BPV's. My ideal is for future campaigns to get away from shifting player start BPV's and level the games. The reason shifts are in place is due to the possibility of single player combat with unequal players. By implimenting this rule it may be that shifts become history. I have never liked the ideal of someone trying to rate players and shift start BPV's but have come up with no other ideals to correct the imbalance in player skill.
The Teams game should have no shifts. It would be an excellent time to experiment with a rule that enforces all open battles and see what happens.
Answer for #2 :
You also did not read the drafting proposal in which all players are put on a Wing Roster. Sorta like a batting order for baseball. As battles are done players from the roster play in them working our way down the roster Race leaders set the roster order to mix in high and low skill just a like a baseball batting order. As mentioned anyone whose ships are involved is always in the battle as now, the team roster is used for his wings. If a player who is on the roster cannot make battle he stays on the roster top but the next player in line flys. In this way all players fly equally for their team
Todd I am not talking about this game, Blade should fly closed and kick your butt for invading him.
Continue to discuss it as I am just throwing it out there to challenge our current belief set.
I believe this change could create much more fun for our group of players from a number of different levels. It would also eliminate some possible bias or misjudgements in fleet start BPV shifts.
Again I want to hear why this proposal is a bad ideal if you folks feel that way ?
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Battle
Jul 4, 2007 6:28:18 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 4, 2007 6:28:18 GMT -5
Another added benifit is folks would know when they are due to fly. Currently with drafting you may say, "Hunny tonight I am allocating time to SFC", then you may or may not get drafted. This way you would know I am next up on the roster and can set aside time on Sunday night to fly.
One More:
One more benifit is it actually allows the higher skilled flyers to have that edge they have earned. Here is how I see that.
Currently I feel Dfly is about 1/3 more BPV than myself. So if he and I go at it in a closed battle with a typical 3 ship fleet, say 600 points I feel he has about a 200 BPV edge.
In a forced team game, our wings would balance over time. Sure maybe in one battle the roster has better wings on one side, but over the span of the roster it should be about equal.
So now with forced teams, when I fight Dfly with a 600 point fleet, his edge is only represented against me in the command ships we each fly. So if we had 250 point command ships his edge now is 60 points vrs 200 the other way.
He is allowed that 60 point edge that he has earned from years of flying. Why is that ok,.. cause a 60 point edge is not like a 200 point edge. Forced Teams is a balancing factor
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Battle
Jul 4, 2007 16:06:18 GMT -5
Post by DeathFrog on Jul 4, 2007 16:06:18 GMT -5
Actually Scott, I did not misread or misenterpret.
#1- I know it was for the next or future campaigns and is not going to be implemented here, nor would I want it to be here. I was just trying to point out some deficiencies I see, and hope someone may come up with ideas that may work better. What we have now is fine for this campaign as it has already started and I dont want it changed(hate mid-server rule changes too). My 2 statement quotes are related to this campaign now, not the next. Your ideas for trying to balance things for the next one are great.
#2 I DID read your proposals, and like them. I did start however at: "As it stands" which pertains to this campaign, and the inability of inexperienced pilots to get matches, and why, during this campaign. The STEPs are ways for them to get some matches in during THIS campaign is all.
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Battle
Jul 4, 2007 19:15:18 GMT -5
Post by Evil Spock on Jul 4, 2007 19:15:18 GMT -5
Ya I agree with what you say, so what is a negative of this ideal.
If your post a couple up was in reguards to this campaign, then like I said that is not what I meant. If it is next campaign then your statements are incorrect. I don't get it?
Anyways since there is really no one saying good ideal, why don't we just shelve it and continue with as we have it now. It works, no sense in shaking the boat.
I just feel poor players will never get drafted for important battles, sure folks open them up when it is 3 against a space creature and I am sure a few folks will open battles that are important. I am not likely to do that unless forced to by the rules and odds are the majority of players are in also thinking that way.
I am torn between what I know is right and what is right for Me. Most of us are in that boat.
That is why I suggested a rules change that adds more fun for everyone, balances battles, eliminates BPV start shifts etc.
Nothing wrong with throwing ideals out there.
Our games have changed a lot since the start when I wrote the rules, but many rules are still in the stone age and do not reflect nature of our online battle crew now. Things have really changed a lot.
For the better I will add !!
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