Sheridan
Backyard Yowler
President Earth Alliance
We stand on the Edge of the Shadow
Posts: 633
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rules
Dec 18, 2008 8:37:33 GMT -5
Post by Sheridan on Dec 18, 2008 8:37:33 GMT -5
I just wanted to bring to light 2 interpretations of the rules that has been different than in past games. In the past I had forbidden such these manuevers but all should know they are now allowed. Currently some players are aware of this but to others they may not be known.
You can scrap a base and pocket the cash. Before I had it that you could only scrap it as part of an upgrade process. This was because folks in a large game like say the Lyran/Mirak war would end up scrapping all their back line bases and pocket the money for new ships. Scrapping a base is now allowable and you do not have to do it as part of an upgrade.
PI's: Say your fleet is in a nebula hex and right outside it is an enemy fleet in a clear hex. Before I prohibited the fleet in the nebula from intercepting the fleet in the clear hex as they could not "see" it to execute the PI. Now you can do this if you have a third unit that can see it, say a base, planet or such. So if the base can see the enemy fleet that is in the clear hex you can call in the intercept from the fleet in the nebula even though the nebula fleet cannot see it.
Rules are always open to interpetation and no particular interpretation is more correct than someone elses. The Ref's interpretation is the only that matters.
Shalafi asked me to post these so that all understand that things I may have deamed not doable in the past are doable now.
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Sheridan
Backyard Yowler
President Earth Alliance
We stand on the Edge of the Shadow
Posts: 633
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rules
Dec 18, 2008 9:05:57 GMT -5
Post by Sheridan on Dec 18, 2008 9:05:57 GMT -5
I did just think of something,.. On the nebula PI/Intercept.
So can a third party nation trip this also. So say Fed sees ISC outside the nebula, and my fleet is inside. They can trip my intercept into the ISC via message too?
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Dec 18, 2008 18:09:16 GMT -5
Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Dec 18, 2008 18:09:16 GMT -5
I"m open to opinions on this (hadn't really thought of it) but my thoughts would be no... this could only be done by a single nation's fleets.
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Dec 18, 2008 18:51:04 GMT -5
Post by DeathFrog on Dec 18, 2008 18:51:04 GMT -5
It was brought to my attention last campaign, and this one, (that last part), and no was the reply I got. IT HAD to be the same nation that controlled both hexes.
also: just a point of interest, The team I lead in the Lyran/Mirak campaign, before it shut down, did not scrap any bases during that campaign, best my recollection. It was not sure if I did it in pizza campaign, but I did do it in one previous campaign. ( I know scott, you werent picking me out with your comments, and i do apreciate them.)
anyway, one of the reasons I happen to agree with the ruling on nebula viewing, is that, as a single fleet, there would be no reason whatsoever for your ships not(forgot that word) to communicate with your ships. I am sure they can find some way of sending coded messages during the weeks(days or months) between impulses. also: (seems i put this word here for no reason lol, modified here)
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Sheridan
Backyard Yowler
President Earth Alliance
We stand on the Edge of the Shadow
Posts: 633
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rules
Dec 18, 2008 19:16:10 GMT -5
Post by Sheridan on Dec 18, 2008 19:16:10 GMT -5
Yes the major reason Dfly was the extra complexity involved in turn resolution that it presented to me. Logically it makes sense but the work load was already beyond comprehesion,.. Shalafi understands,.. That is why I prevented it. Ya I never meant to say in L/K war you did this,.. it was an example of a game in which people remember. It started in the original shattered mirror game in which Fed had like 6 Star bases and numerous BATS and all the sensor bouys lining nation edges, on the Federation and Empire War map were BS (sensor bouys did not exist back then). So some brilliant player wanted to scrap a lot of stuff,.. valued in 1000's of EP and I over ruled and said No. This is how it started is all. A new interpretation is fine just want to make sure we all know about it. Ho Chi and I had talked for many turns of scrapping a "BASE" LOL and figured we could not. It came to a shock to us we could, and we only learned this upon arriving at the Narn capital. Just want to make sure we are all on the same page, that is all. Same with nebula intercepts. Dfly, you benifited on the ruling by intercepting the Minbari from a nebula hex, with this ruling so of course you agree with it. The issue goes back to why it was banned long ago,.. gets overly complicated for the Ref to resolve. Anyways,.. message delivered,.. so we all know what is possible under the rules, that is all I wanted. No surprises for players,.. that is all. As years past I set a different standard. Changes are fine, but need to be posted for all to know. S
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Dec 18, 2008 19:27:31 GMT -5
Post by DeathFrog on Dec 18, 2008 19:27:31 GMT -5
fully understood
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Dec 19, 2008 21:06:06 GMT -5
Post by Gold Centurion on Dec 19, 2008 21:06:06 GMT -5
We Cylons are always interested in bases, as they don't move and we do, thus we are attracted to them like flies to the ... oh
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Sheridan
Backyard Yowler
President Earth Alliance
We stand on the Edge of the Shadow
Posts: 633
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rules
Dec 28, 2008 0:15:51 GMT -5
Post by Sheridan on Dec 28, 2008 0:15:51 GMT -5
We Cylons are always interested in bases, as they don't move and we do, thus we are attracted to them like flies to the ... oh There my Cylon friend,... you are wrong,.. they do move,... now.
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Sheridan
Backyard Yowler
President Earth Alliance
We stand on the Edge of the Shadow
Posts: 633
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rules
Dec 30, 2008 15:24:26 GMT -5
Post by Sheridan on Dec 30, 2008 15:24:26 GMT -5
As usual breaking from prior precedent may not be a good ideal. Scrapping a base is indeed prohibited by the rules except to upgrade read below.
The Narn are in violation of the rules, the EA are confused, and likely Shalafi is pulling his hair out LOL
Base Building The maximum EP output for construction of a base is 100 EP per turn. Only stock bases can be built BATS, BS and the only modifications allowed are to change drone speed to match the campaign era. All bases are basic bases with no improvements. (This is mostly in place because the base Mod gets flakey when you outfit the base with extra stuff).
Once built, they can only be upgraded by scrapping the previous base, then constructing a new base on the site of the old one. This is the only instance in which bases can be scrapped, and this can only be done provided the EP is used for the new base. Scrapping a base can be done instantly during the first turn you decide to upgrade and spend money.
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Dec 30, 2008 20:18:33 GMT -5
Post by DeathFrog on Dec 30, 2008 20:18:33 GMT -5
then i guess other campaigns previous broke the rules as well then. OH WAIT: perhaps read other parts of rules, such as: Scrapping A ship or [glow=red,2,300]base[/glow] may be scrapped for 66% of its BPV. This takes one full turn, counts as one project, and must be plotted. Points garnered from scrapping are available for new construction on the turn after the salvage is complete. Sorry scott, but it is in the rules.
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Dec 30, 2008 20:33:53 GMT -5
Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Dec 30, 2008 20:33:53 GMT -5
It's actually one of those cases where it's listed one place but the clause where the situations when it can happen are in another :/ so technically no they couldn't scrap it... the base is gone.. that's a given... i'm working on the where did the ep wind up problem now
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Ho Chi
Scurvy Cat
The Devil's Advocate
Posts: 93
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rules
Dec 30, 2008 20:37:03 GMT -5
Post by Ho Chi on Dec 30, 2008 20:37:03 GMT -5
Yes...this is in the rules...but this speaks to use of the EP from a legally scrapped ship or base. And as previously posted, the EP from a scrapped base must be used for the UPGRADE of the base. So...this means that the NARN BATS that was scrapped must be used for an upgrade on the base at the NARN HW.
As the base was already a BATS, I don't think there was an UPGRADE available. Hence, the scrapping was not legal.
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Dec 30, 2008 21:45:17 GMT -5
Post by Maximus Plasma on Dec 30, 2008 21:45:17 GMT -5
Ahem, cough. well if the order was illegal. And apparently it was. then it would appear that there is a bats at the Narian home world still. the ep would not get transfered to the bank for "other uses". And there would still be a battle to settle . IMHO
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Dec 30, 2008 23:20:54 GMT -5
Post by LoCatus of Borg on Dec 30, 2008 23:20:54 GMT -5
I avoid reading the rules when ever possible but does it say the ep from the scrapped base must be used in the same location...or could it be used upgrade or built an upgraded base elsewhere..in a far away hex.....?
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Dec 31, 2008 2:44:19 GMT -5
Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Dec 31, 2008 2:44:19 GMT -5
uh no warp lol nice try tho...
It's been resolved... the Narns self destructed the base when they heard of the EA's approach so there was nothing there.
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