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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Aug 2, 2007 10:15:35 GMT -5
Yes and I think yes.... we really haven't gotten to test the new repairs rules very much yet...
Note for between campaigns... test the new repair rules in depth
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Post by DeathFrog on Aug 2, 2007 18:27:40 GMT -5
Actually we are just getting to the point where some colonies will get the chance to test those repair systems from planets. Give it a chance to happen in this campaign(unless of course it ends in 2 turns or something). I think we may be surprised at the results.
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Post by Da Brain on Aug 2, 2007 19:06:37 GMT -5
I think it funny that Dfly away from home and damaged, likes the planetary repair rule. Before you get upset read below about my own biases,.. I could go either way with it for future campaigns. IMHO,.. Mostly it is dependant on the size of the campaign map,.. I feel large maps are better suited to allow for planetary repair. The issue is does the guy who has damage have to return home to fix it? The distance etc is the factor. Genereally the rule prior was in place to help the lossing player. Usually a damage situation is the other guy lost all his stuff. Base battles are the exception to this rule. So the original intent was if some was getting a whopping and could only damage a fleet,.. eventually that fleet would have to return home for repairs. Planetary repairs put that in jeapody as the guy can repair on the attack and never have to go back home. I like rules in general that favor the underdog, gee,... I am an underdog I admit my own bias and I see others have theirs and that is ok. Our total mix of ideals is what the ref's sort out for a fun game. It has always been a challenge ref'ing and whatever the call it is fine with me. I would even go as far as to test abandoning blockade rules altogether, although my instinct says that is not good. I think that the recent changes in the game, like losing repair boxes based on damage is huge leap forward in improving the overall game. We really had issues with damage not being effective or hurting someone. Damage is often times the best someone can do in a game, and that should be rewarded. The dialogue is the best, well done to all players whose input is heard !!!
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Aug 2, 2007 19:36:02 GMT -5
I mostly agree Scott.... we included them because the map is so big, the B5 map for example is small enough that you could easially pack up and head for home after a battle (well.... I couldn't mostly but I was EVERYWHERE MUAH HA HA HA oh sry haven't taken my meds)
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Post by Da Brain on Aug 2, 2007 21:23:16 GMT -5
Oh it is huge to go from your homeworld to the core, repair in this game is tough !! Again it depends mostly on the map, even over player ideals.
This map is PIZZA PIE !!
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Aug 2, 2007 21:26:06 GMT -5
and if you had your way it'd have extra cheese
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Post by DeathFrog on Aug 2, 2007 21:43:52 GMT -5
So Cheesy, not sure how you figure I would like the planetary repair rules as my DN is not that bad. I was talking about Roman's Carrier. Also, as I stated, you may be surprised at the results. As an Example, let's say Roman wants to repair his carrier. Even to move it to one of his planets will take 2 turns. At 10EP/turn, it will take some 6-7 turns to fully repair it. Then add 2 turns to return, that is 10-11 turns. If he returns to his homeworld, 3 turns, 1 to repair, 3 to return, still a loss of 7 full turns. Do you think it is now worth it for the attacking team to use the planetary repair system? It don't look like it now does it? Thus why I stated you may be "surprised" at the results. I truly believe this planetary repair system will still Mainly benefit the defender. Such as in our blockade, you now have the option of putting down onto the planet one of your ships and spending up to 25 EP to repair it as it is your homeworld. Your ship is out of commission for 1 turn and the 78% NCL is now 98%. None of our attacking ships could ever do that. Any of your ships returning to home could stop at one of your other planets(if they come near one) to repair quickly before hitting the blokade(in this case). Our ships need to move away(lucky for me only 1 turn just to get there, 6 to fully repair at 10EP/turn, and 1 to move back, making 8 full turns for my ship to return to duty, and I am only 3 hexes away ). I still believe they benefit the defender.
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Post by Evil Spock on Aug 3, 2007 17:29:20 GMT -5
Hmmm,.. that is interesting about my ability to repair a ship outside of the blockade. Had not thought of that. Your right that it would take time for a repair, but no one says it has to stay the whole 6 turns under repair. I think it still clearly benifits the attacker. Otherwise damage over time screws the winning attacker. Planet EP changes in games, also what if you suceeded at my capital? You would have 25 at turn to repair your damaged fleet, that would bring up a ship much quicker. I still say the map size and now also planetary EP values (which have changed over time) are a major factor in repair. Let us when ever in doubt think about using history as an example for "Barf", realistic reasons about repair. Your all left to figure out whatever the hell that means Put it in the best contect we have today to compare it to and what rule does that more closly mimick in the game?
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Post by DeathFrog on Aug 3, 2007 17:33:24 GMT -5
OK, so I repair my DN for 3 turns, and get to 89%, then head back, taking a total of 5 turns only, and still being out 1 repair . 5 turns is an eternity in a campaign that may only last 8-20 turns total. (working off examples from above posts).
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Post by Maximus Plasma on Aug 5, 2007 13:53:55 GMT -5
Once again,i would point out the repair ship may be a soution to both defenders and attackers. not nessarrily a "FRD". I would say that a freighter with its cargo being spare parts for a fleet. In any case we could work out rules for such a vessel.
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Aug 6, 2007 8:09:47 GMT -5
very true.... we just haven't taken the time to figure out the rules for it yet
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Post by Head Fur Shalafi on Aug 6, 2007 8:12:48 GMT -5
"Let us when ever in doubt think about using history as an example for "Barf", realistic reasons about repair. Your all left to figure out whatever the hell that means" Actually found one... Japanese crash repairing a cruiser flotilla at Truck after it was basically cut off from the rest of their forces.
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Post by Evil Spock on Aug 6, 2007 14:12:03 GMT -5
Yes to me crash repairing is what happens after battle.
-Your engines are repaired to full status for free, no matter where you are. Fighters 100% repaired, drones shuttles etc fully reloaded. ALL at no cost.
-Before your next battle you have used up repair boxes up, I doubt you actually wait till 1 minute before battle to initiate using your repair boxes. That is just how it is done on our end of things.
So a ton of repair is done, FOR FREE,.. the question is do want folks to be able to further repair at peoples planets being able to bring a ship back up past field level repairs to full repair.
None of these ships can land on a planet.
Why there is such a desire to place repair facilities all over the map, at every single da.mn planet, is beyond me. It just benifits the winner cause most of the time the battle results in a winner with damage and losser who has no ships. Only base battles create a varient on this.
So the winner can repair all over the map at every single planet ?
I have already said if that is what you guys wish to do that is fine with me. That is what we are doing now and isn't it?
So your saying Shalafi that If the Japs took Pearl harbor,.. they could have repaired there ? In my view there would have been nothing left of any Docks, or facilities after the battle.
The japs would have had to rebuild those.
In our games when a planetary base is destroyed,.... that is the repair facility and when it is destroyed, it needs to be rebuild before someone can repair.
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Post by DeathFrog on Aug 6, 2007 15:35:23 GMT -5
So you are saying that being able to repair by 10EP, other than taking a homeworld,(25EP) is OTT. A 200 point ship gets to repair 5%(10EP/TURN) of it's ship for every single turn it wishes to sit and wait. Do you realize that it would take a 200 pt ship with 60% health a full 8 turns to fully repair? Even if it wants to be say 80% it would still take 4 full turns of sitting at a planet doing nothing, and then go to battle later with 20% damage and down 2 repair boxes. HOw many people so far have repaired at a planet? I bet it would be hard to find 1. Has this repair at the planets changed any of our game yet? doubt it. I realize some may feel it benefits only the attacker as the defender usually has lost ship and in that respect I can see why as the defender no longer has a ship to repair. If it is such an issue then suggest something like: "Only Homeworlds can repair while they are controlled by their original owners". THat way only the defender can take advantage of repairing, even when blockaded(should that rule make it to the next campaign) and someone taking over a homeworld does not get that advantage when defending same said homeworld.
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Post by Evil Spock on Aug 6, 2007 17:10:38 GMT -5
No I am not saying repairing at 10 EP a turn is over the top I am saying that having every single planet in the game be a repair point seems to me wrong and I do not understand the desire to make it that way. It does not seem historical in the sense of our warships of our times, and defys any sort of logic in my mind. I figure there must be a reason of benifit in some folks minds and that illudes me to.
We are playing with it this way now and it is fine, no big beef here. Everything that is done will not always be understood by me.
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